SPARTANBURG, S.C. — During his first NFL training camp in 2020 amid a global pandemic, a masked-up Matt Rhule jumped into a defensive line drill and smacked and spun his way through a line of blocking dummies before tackling the last one.
Rhule didn’t tackle anything at this year’s camp — except a no-sugar diet in an effort to lose a few pounds, and also to sacrifice some of the creature comforts during the two-plus weeks the Panthers spent in the dorms at Wofford.
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Sitting in his office before the Panthers’ penultimate camp practice this week, Rhule was cueing up plays to show his team what not to do in the two-minute offense. Included was one from Week 8 last year in which Carson Wentz inexplicably attempted a left-handed pass from his end zone that the Titans turned into an easy pick-6.
Rhule’s desk was stacked with a collection of empty and half-filled water bottles, as well as a gallon-sized, plastic water jug. Part of his no-sugar regimen?
No, Rhule said before chugging one of the Dasani waters. Just a way to pre-hydrate before practice on a 94-degree day in Spartanburg.
“The heat here has been something to deal with,” he said.
After back-to-back, five-win seasons, the heat is on Rhule as he begins his third year. Online sportsbooks make him the favorite to become the first NFL coach fired.
Matt Rhule has won five games in each of his first two seasons with the Panthers. (Jim Dedmon / USA Today)But the 47-year-old Rhule likes this team. He believes the roster is improved (it is) and players have more of a winning mindset (hard to know until the games start). Quarterback play will go a long way in determining the fate of Rhule and the Panthers, and he’s been impressed with how Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold have handled the competition.
During a wide-ranging, 30-minute interview with The Athletic on Tuesday, Rhule discussed some under-the-radar players to watch, the time Mayfield pissed him off, his favorite Charlotte restaurants and why he’s not looking to leave the Panthers to return to college coaching.
Some answers have been edited for brevity and clarity.
Much has been made about your college success in Year 3. Are there things that are transferrable to the NFL in Year 3 or is it apples and oranges?
Everything’s different. I always think as a team, when you’re ready to win, you win. When the mental meets the physical. When the mentality and mindset of everyone, when everyone’s on the same page and they get it, but you also have the right roster. I won in college because I had really good players. And those players took their lumps. And then at some point they were like, we’re done taking our lumps. Whether that’s Year 2, Year 3, Year 4, that’s the part of it. As painful sometimes as last year was, there’s a lot of lessons in last year. We were able to hit that point in Year 3 in college twice. We had a better second year, though. Here we started off having that (good) second year. We were 5-5 and had every right to think we had a chance. And then just didn’t get it done down the stretch. Now we can have open conversations with our players because it’s been three, four years now of a late-season slide. Our guys understand now that when we’re in training camp, we’re not training for the first game. We’re training for November, December and January.
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Have you seen evidence that this team has reached that point?
They definitely want to win. They work. Now it’s a matter of teaching ourselves as a team and them teaching each other the finer points of let’s not beat ourselves. And it’s so much easier when you can have an Austin Corbett get up and talk about what it felt like on the final drive in the Super Bowl last year to go win. Or Johnny Hekker to talk about how the Rams didn’t win a game in November last year, and they won the Super Bowl. We’ve gained such valuable experience to the roster to go along with this strong foundation of this is what it takes to win.
Did you have a moment in camp where you saw Baker do something and thought, he gets it?
I knew him in college. So I kinda knew what I was getting. He’s an alpha type of a guy.
Did the Baylor-Oklahoma game (where Mayfield trash-talked Baylor players before an Oklahoma win) piss you off in the moment?
Oh, yeah, in the moment. Plus, we were 0-3 and we’d lost to Liberty and whoever else, so we weren’t in a very good spot. But there’s certain guys in life, you hate ‘em when they’re on someone else’s team. But you love ‘em when they’re on yours.
Did that taint your view of him for a while? Did you have to call (former Oklahoma coach) Lincoln Riley and say, I’m not sure how I feel about this guy?
That didn’t really affect me too much because I was like, you know what, to the victor belongs the spoils. When you’re undefeated, you get to do what you want. One thing I’ve learned is when we go to get a free agent or someone from the outside, I love talking to someone who’s coached them. I like getting that unbiased view. So we tried to do that with a lot of different guys we brought in. It was really important to us this year to bring in the right veteran players.
Christian McCaffrey and Baker Mayfield (Griffin Zetterberg / USA Today)What was the most memorable thing you were told about Baker?
Lincoln was like: “Matt, I know you. He fits the way you want to play. He’s your kind of guy. He’s gonna be a leader and a tough guy.” That was important to me. Any time you bring someone into a competition, they have to be someone that loves competition. If you bring in someone to battle for a spot and they’re entitled and they don’t like to compete, then it’s gonna be a negative for the team. But the biggest compliment I can give both guys right now is they’ve enjoyed the competition. That’s what feeds their soul. You see that from them every day. They support each other at not even a fake level, but a high level. That’s what people told me about Baker, that he would be a competitor and not someone that expected things to be handed to him.
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Who are some guys that aren’t being talked about right now that should be?
I think Ian Thomas is one of the most undervalued guys on the team because he does all the stuff that allows other people to be highly successful. Not many guys can run routes like he can and still block and pass protect at the level he can. I think the combination of backs behind Christian McCaffrey. D’Onta Foreman, Chuba Hubbard. And really one of the guys who’s had the best camps is Spencer Brown. That group gives us a depth we haven’t had. The addition of Cory Littleton, he’s going to give us such flexibility. And then Myles (Hartsfield) is a guy that can play safety, play corner. He’s a 220-pound nickel. You don’t have very many of those in the NFL, that can run as well as anyone. I really think (Marquis) Haynes is ready to have a good year. When they told us he was healthy the other day, that was a huge thing for the team. You look at the amount of pressure he’s gotten in the limited snaps he’s gotten, he can rush the passer. As his role gets amplified this year, I’m expecting him to do great things.
You started your NFL career during COVID. You were in masks. You had shingles. You were Zoom coaching. It was hard from a coaching standpoint. But do you think that also affected your ability to have fans and maybe even media connect with you on a human level?
When I first got here pre-COVID, I lived in the hotel downtown. I’d go out to eat different places. People would stop. I got a chance to meet a lot of fans early on. And then after that, I haven’t had a chance to really have those interactions. This year we had some PSL owners that came in. We visited with them and did a Q&A. I think those things are an important part of being the head coach. We want to impact the community and we want to entertain our fans. Part of that is doing those things outside the season, which as a college coach you spend a lot of time doing. You talk to the fans and people at Baylor and Temple, they spent a lot of time with me. Here it’s been locked down, even to the point it’s affected you (when) your kids have something going on or your wife wants to go to dinner in the middle of the season. And you’re like, “Hey, I can’t afford to get COVID so I’m just gonna stay home.” The only presence people really saw of you was on Sunday, which is with a scowl as opposed to the person day to day who’s a different person than what you see on Sunday.
What prompted you to lose weight this summer?
Probably just my health in general. The last two years, it takes a lot of work to do what we’ve done. So I’ve probably spent more time working. I got to the point where I was like, all right, take some time to get some exercise every day. Take some time to eat a little bit better. And during training camp, I’ve been on this intense, restricted no-sugar (diet). For me to go no sugar’s crazy. But I always like in training camp, I’m asking the players to do a lot. I always like in some small way give up and not have the normal comforts so that I’m kinda in it with the players.
What’s been the toughest thing to give up?
I don’t think I realized how much sugar’s in everything. I got to the restaurant and people go like, “Matt, just hurry up and order.” Because I’m like: “What’s in this? What’s in this? What’s in this?” I gave up dairy. I gave up sugar.
What have you been eating?
Vegetables and eggs and meat. I’ve been pretty disciplined. I’m weighing out at the end of training camp. I feel a lot better.
Matt Rhule said it was an honor wearing Sam Mills’ number today on a big day for Mills’ family and the Panthers’ organization. pic.twitter.com/rjR6q35J56
— Joe Person (@josephperson) August 6, 2022
You came back tanned. Was it nice to get away?
I’ve got that Italian blood. My mom’s Italian. So if I get in the sun even a little bit, I’m usually pretty tan. This is the first year I’ve worn a hat. I see people that I’m close with deal with skin cancer, so I finally wore a hat as a coach. The way our guys worked during OTAs, leaving OTAs I felt so positive and encouraged, like we’ve got it now. We all are on the same page. It takes a long time to get people on the same page. So took a little time with the family. The players got away. I was really, really excited to get here to Wofford.
Did you get to Cape May (N.J.)? Is that your happy place?
Yeah. In coaching, you can move a lot of different places. So we always wanted our kids to have one place that’s like, this is where we (come). Bryant is going to be a junior in high school. I think he’s been to 14 different schools. As you traverse around, you want them to have one place that when they go there, they know this is this, this is that. We just kept it. When I go there, I’m not Coach. People in the town just kinda know me as Matt. It’s a cool place.
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In the offseason, what’s a perfect off day for you and your family?
On a Saturday in the offseason, my daughter Leona gets up at 6. I don’t like getting up with her, but I get up with her. But on those days, my daughters do equestrian. So I take them to the horse farm. So I’m with them, but I’ve got a couple hours just to walk around or read or do whatever I need to do. But I get to watch them do something they love. It’s a half-hour drive, half-hour back. So I put on music they like. We like to sing “Hamilton” together. “You’ll Be Back,” the song with the king, that’s a favorite of ours. And then in the evening, me and Bryant, there’s some sort of a game on. He’s a huge Charlotte FC fan. So if Charlotte FC’s not playing at home, we’re watching the game together. Then if I can sneak in dinner late night with Julie, that’s probably (it).
You mentioned reading. What’s the last book you read?
“Winning” by Tim Grover. This was the best book I read this summer and the last one. Tim Grover was the trainer for Michael Jordan and Dwyane Wade and all those guys. It’s about the mind of the elite winner. I find our guys really relate to basketball sometimes. It’s his exploits with these elite guys in basketball and then everyone else, and what makes the difference?
What’s the last show you binged?
Here at Wofford, I watched “The Terminal List.” One episode a night because a bunch of players were talking about it. It’s pretty good. It’s about a Navy SEAL. Then the last thing Julie and I watched together was “The Offer”. That was one of the best series I’ve seen this year. It’s a dramatization of the making of “The Godfather.” It’s phenomenal, the backstory.
What was the last job you had before football coach?
When I was the graduate assistant at the University of Buffalo (in 1999), Julie and I were married and I didn’t make very much money. She was working as a teacher. To help make ends meet, I also worked at Dick’s Sporting Goods. I was on the floor working at Dick’s. I worked the evening shift and then on the weekends. I remember they always taught you: underpromise and overdeliver. You never said, “We have one in the back.” You’d always say, “Let me see if we have one in the back.” I didn’t do it real long because I was fortunate to get promoted. But it was a good lesson in you’ve gotta do what you’ve gotta do to chase your dreams.
Have you been in Charlotte long enough to have a go-to restaurant?
I have a couple. It depends on what it’s for. Usually, if it’s related to players, I’ll take them to Steak 48. Usually, if it’s Julie and I on a casual night, or me and one of the coaches right after work, we’ll stop at Stagioni (and) sit at the bar. If it’s mid-afternoon and we’re sneaking away from our kids, we’ll go to BrickTop’s and get the happy hour menu. If it’s a true night out for Julie and I, we’ll go to Fig Tree or my favorite Italian restaurant — I think it’s phenomenal — it’s called AQUA e VINO. You can ask me about food all day. If it’s lunchtime and I’m by myself, I go to Phil’s Deli. Phil’s Deli, it’s like I’m back in New York. And AQUA e VINO, I feel like I’m back in Philly. In terms of the delicatessen and the Italian restaurants.
Ron Rivera said to do it over again, he would have had a former head coach on his first staff, just to help with all the things he didn’t know he didn’t know. Now you have these guys. But would you have done that differently?
I tried to do it. I just never found the right guy. It’s kind of funny. I interviewed Ben (McAdoo). At the time I didn’t think it was right. Sometimes it’s like divine purpose. I think he came at the right time and the right moment. A couple guys that I wanted to get, they were like, “Hey, Matt, I’m gonna retire,” or stay in retirement. I think more than anything, they can give you advice. But it’s also that they have perspective of what you’re going through. If you look at Steve (Wilks) or Ben or even Coach P (Paul Pasqualoni), they understand the different things that come with this job besides just on the practice field, etc. I’ve tried to get Jim Caldwell to come work for me a couple times. His son actually played for my father in ninth-grade football (in State College, Pa.).
Ben McAdoo and Baker Mayfield (Jim Dedmon / USA Today)What do you think about what’s going on in college football with the NILs and super-conferences?
I feel like a player should be paid for his name, image and likeness. And I feel like if a player’s not at the right school, he has the right to transfer and go to another school, just like any other student. I think where it goes wrong is when the adults, when everyone around them gets involved and they start misapplying it and turning it into a way to just buy players. For some players, they’re not all gonna play in the NFL. That’s money that can maybe help them in their lives. I had a lot of players over the years that had real issues at home and didn’t have much. I’d much rather take care of those guys and make sure they have money to send home to their families or to do the things they want to do in their lives than not. In terms of the super conferences, I’m a traditionalist. I love the regional conferences. I love watching teams bus and play someone in their conference. I think it’s what makes college football so great is when you’re at the office and hey, I’m an Arkansas fan, and you’re an Oklahoma fan. Or, hey, I’m an Alabama fan and you’re an Auburn fan, and we’re arguing about who’s best. You start playing everybody all across the country, we live in a TV world, you can do it. But I probably will miss always the regional matchups. The Backyard Brawl, West Virginia-Pitt. Nebraska-Colorado. Those are games that I grew up on.
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There’s this perception that you’re going to end up back in college at some point. Is that enticing at all?
I would say, No. 1, we’ve done way too much work here to not be there to enjoy the fruits of it. Scott (Fitterer) has done a great job. Our staff’s done a great job. Our players have done a great job. I want us to start that climb of becoming a team that can compete for championships. I feel like we’ve reestablished a foundation of really good players. Teams go in cycles. The cycle came to an end. We’ve weathered the storm and I feel like we’re in the process now of trying to start that ascent of winning at a high level. I have no desire to leave and do that.
And the second thing is: When people only see you on TV on Sundays, they see you as a coach. They don’t see you as a father. I love living in Charlotte. I’ve met unbelievable people. My kids have great friends. They go to great schools. My mother and father moved here. Julie’s father’s here. We have set up shop here. We want to be here as long as we possibly can. When people have been as supportive as they have during the tough times, that makes times when you do have success all the greater. That’s one thing I’ve really learned the last two years. You might not like everything that’s happening, but here are the great people. Here are the bright spots. Here are the people that treat your kids well. So I feel a tremendous obligation to bring a winner to Bank of America Stadium.
(Top photo of Matt Rhule: Jared C. Tilton / Getty Images)
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